Useful Links

**Thopor** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:32 pm

LOTRO is at similar level as EQII.
It ennobles LOTRO because I think EQII is a great game too.

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**Thopor** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:52 pm

What is it all about?

http://www.lotro-europe.com/newspage.php?id=1708

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**Taeradan** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:16 pm

Presumably creeps or freeps rolling more than that and overpowering the other factions
and perhaps spoiling the spirit of the game, which is quite funny as its no holds barred pvp.

**Marlon** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:09 pm

Yes, those trolls and rangers are for Ettenmoors.
They were away for a while because of some violations and misuse i think.

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**Thopor** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:13 pm

http://www.unlocktheminesofmoria.com/

Well, due to the thread's name, it should be here too.

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**Mick** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:15 pm

On resistances and mitigations.
http://www.kiirkas.com/lotrofiles/dmg_resist_mitigation.html

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Playing Lotro is like making love to a beautiful woman; you enter with the state of mind that patience and determination are the virtues here, but after some ferocious efforts you realize that the time spent has been in vain.

**Mick** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:23 am

Updated Dynamic Map, includes Moria
http://dynmap.ruslotro.com/eregion.html

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Playing Lotro is like making love to a beautiful woman; you enter with the state of mind that patience and determination are the virtues here, but after some ferocious efforts you realize that the time spent has been in vain.

**Marlon** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:01 am

Guides and spoilers for the instances:

http://forums.lotro.com/forumdisplay.php?f=196

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**Mick** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Fri May 22, 2009 5:19 am

Release notes for Book 8.
http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Volume_2_Book_8_Bullroarer_Official

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Playing Lotro is like making love to a beautiful woman; you enter with the state of mind that patience and determination are the virtues here, but after some ferocious efforts you realize that the time spent has been in vain.

**Marlon** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Fri May 22, 2009 11:02 am

I´m starting to feel absolutely disgusted.

-30% penalty on incoming healing on champions when in Fervour stance
Evil or Very Mad

For crying out loud...are they really trying to diminish the entire champion class out of the game?

Bearing in mind that our DPS was already nerfed in book 7, this may have some very dramatic consequences.

What would you think that any minstrel would answer to a question:
"Would you like your heals to have 30% less effect on me and you spending more power on healing me?"

Ok, i´ll be staying out of fervour then.
Now what would any other member of a fellowship think about this one:
"ok, guys, i can´t use fervour, i´ll stick to ardour. So instead of +23% on melee damage i´m going to go with +3% on melee damage. Hope that´s ok with you?"

Champion on already lowered DPS and being very squishy and power consuming for others or Champion that does just about as much as damage as Captain or Guardian thus offering really nothing to the fellowship? Pick one.

With the nerf they have done to our DPS and now the penalty for doing the little that we still can, really pisses me off.

Champions are suppoused to be DPS, and more importantly AOE class.
And taking those away from us, what special can we really offer to a fellowship anymore? For what purpouse shoud specificly a champion be picked on a fellowship instead of some other class?

I can fully understand why classes are constantly modified. The balance of classes has been rather shocking ever since the release of MoM.
This nerf on us champs is quite clearly made for upgrading the status of Guardians and maybe even Wardens. Nerf on book 7 on champs on hunters was to upgrade the tactical classes.

Upgrade being the key word here. It´s not really an uprgade for someone else, if you weaken some other, now is it?

Once again , i´m getting to my favourite subject. The 2 new classes.
Why did Turbine have to fix something that wasn´t broken in the first place?
The balance between the classes before MoM was more or less functioning properly in my opinnion.

The introduction of Rune-Keeper and Warden changed that. Now you can see the classes been modified on constant basis, so the 2 bright ideas of Turbines brainstorm can fit in the game.

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**Mick** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Fri May 22, 2009 12:57 pm

Does seem a bit harsh. Wonder what the are trying to accomplish here. Doesn't affect (?) a soloing champ, nor a main tanking one. So the penalty is to off-tanking / MA. Are they trying to guide champs to use ardour, or maybe trying to force them to be more careful?

I tend to think that change is, on principal, good. They are trying to make the game more balanced. Granted, they have tweeked a lot since MoM. But the champ being nerfed is not a synonym for the classes being balanced before MoM. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Marlon.

_________________
Playing Lotro is like making love to a beautiful woman; you enter with the state of mind that patience and determination are the virtues here, but after some ferocious efforts you realize that the time spent has been in vain.

**Marlon** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Fri May 22, 2009 1:54 pm

Mick wrote:

Does seem a bit harsh. Wonder what the are trying to accomplish here. Doesn't affect (?) a soloing champ, nor a main tanking one. So the penalty is to off-tanking / MA. Are they trying to guide champs to use ardour, or maybe trying to force them to be more careful?

I think that at the end of the day this might have something to with bringing guardians back to being useful.

As we both have witnessed while doing HM instances, guardian really isn´t needed or was making things even harder/slower. o
Or at elast that was the case with Grand Stair and Forges.

Remember when you asked if I did even use a shield at all down at the Forges? And my answe was no, and i was even on Fervour all time?
(apart from short periods of time with the last boss)

This really tells, the state of the guardian class at the moment. Who needs a guardian, when a champion can do the same job, with x alot more DPS?

Giving the penalty to the Fervour like this, basicly rules that alternative out. So this a way back to more traditionaly built fellowships aswell.

Having a guardian myself too, I can fully understand, that something needed to be done to bring them back into the game, but is this really the right way? taking the strengths of another classes away?
Just like what happened to champs and hunters in previous patch, when they needed to make tactical classes easier to solo.

Just look at the AOE of a champion now. Doing massive AOE has the possibility to turn the aggro of every mob on him. with that -30% on incoming healing, that´s a suicide basicly. On Ardour AOE´ing can´t be considered as a strength anymore, can it.

I´ve read people mentioning, that now champs have to think about the well being of a fellowship (and their own) aswell, like hunters have been doing from the start (endurance/strength etc etc) So why shouldn´t champions do that aswell. Good remark, but it ain´t that simple. Champion is a AOE class, meant to do AOE. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CROWD of mobs. Taking hits and damage. Unlike some other classes.

This is all theory, need to see how it really affects the fellowship role of a champion. As, Mick presumed, this doesn´t affect soloing champion at all, as -30% doesn´t effect champs self-heals.

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**Marlon** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Fri May 22, 2009 2:52 pm

Mick wrote:

I tend to think that change is, on principal, good. They are trying to make the game more balanced. Granted, they have tweeked a lot since MoM. But the champ being nerfed is not a synonym for the classes being balanced before MoM. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Marlon.

What i meant with the "don´t fix it if it ain´t broken" line, was that the roles of the classes were much more clearer and precise in SoA. No need to twink or nerf any of the classes, just because some other class had similar kind of skills or could do the same "role" in a fellowship as good or even better as the class meant to do that role. I´m not saying that it was on the nail, or every class was perfect or the harmony between the 7 classes was spot on, but it was hugely better, than the current situation.

Instead of building on that solid foundation,from which it would´ve been easy to build even more solid and strong building, they tore the foundation to pieces by introducing 2 more classes.
In fact they didn´t even tear it a down properly. They just tried to put round pegs in square holes. Tried the easy and fast way out. Just get them 2 new classes out there and fast.
And what has happened ever since is, that they had no other choice than to start tearing it down again. And try to put the bricks in right order.

The Harmony between the classes hasn´t existed since the 2 new classes. During SoA time it was much more better. It hasn´t been about us champs only. It has affected every single class more or less.

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**Mick** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Fri May 22, 2009 4:31 pm

Marlon wrote:

As we both have witnessed while doing HM instances, guardian really isn´t needed or was making things even harder/slower. o
Or at elast that was the case with Grand Stair and Forges.

Remember when you asked if I did even use a shield at all down at the Forges? And my answe was no, and i was even on Fervour all time?
(apart from short periods of time with the last boss)

This really tells, the state of the guardian class at the moment. Who needs a guardian, when a champion can do the same job, with x alot more DPS?

From what I've whitnessed, guards can still tank better. And if our fine fellowship allows the champ to tank and do his job well, there's nothing wrong with that. The fact that they are trying to bring the classes closer together, as we have discussed, is a good thing in my opinion.

Marlon wrote:

Giving the penalty to the Fervour like this, basicly rules that alternative out. So this a way back to more traditionaly built fellowships aswell.

Having not played a champ, I fail to understand why a tanking champion should ever use Fervour anyways. Not being able to block, parry or evade puts extra pressure on the healers. Always.

Marlon wrote:

Having a guardian myself too, I can fully understand, that something needed to be done to bring them back into the game, but is this really the right way? taking the strengths of another classes away? Just like what happened to champs and hunters in previous patch, when they needed to make tactical classes easier to solo.

Well.. they balanced the solo play. Soloing with a minstrel or even a captain was total bollocks sometimes in SoA. Now it's a little better. But the numbers you have mentioned, 4-5 mobs of your own level at the same time.. with a minstrel no chance, captain has a little chance against 4 depending what kinda mobs they are. I understand nerf feels like crap, it's very human.

Marlon wrote:

Just look at the AOE of a champion now. Doing massive AOE has the possibility to turn the aggro of every mob on him. with that -30% on incoming healing, that´s a suicide basicly. On Ardour AOE´ing can´t be considered as a strength anymore, can it.

Why not? For example a captain dps is comparable to champ against one mob. You being able to AoE still makes you a far superior dps class.

Marlon wrote:

I´ve read people mentioning, that now champs have to think about the well being of a fellowship (and their own) aswell, like hunters have been doing from the start (endurance/strength etc etc) So why shouldn´t champions do that aswell. Good remark, but it ain´t that simple. Champion is a AOE class, meant to do AOE. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CROWD of mobs. Taking hits and damage. Unlike some other classes.

The idea that one class can simultanously do massive AoE damage to multiple mobs with great survivability is... absurd. Now you have to pick your spots. As a Main Assist. Other point is tanking. Like I mentioned earlier, fervouring champs tend to put extra pressure on the healers. Fellowship play, or better yet good fellowship play, is often about control. DPS! DPS! DPS! -thinking rarely brings home the bacon (not saying you ever were that kind of player). Granted, doing hardmode with time constraints or doing places with fast respawn rate tweeks this a bit.

All this is not to say that I wouldn't understand the "greater dps benefits the group" -point. I do. It can end fights quickly.

Marlon wrote:

What i meant with the "don´t fix it if it ain´t broken" line, was that the roles of the classes were much more clearer and precise in SoA. No need to twink or nerf any of the classes, just because some other class had similar kind of skills or could do the same "role" in a fellowship as good or even better as the class meant to do that role. I´m not saying that it was on the nail, or every class was perfect or the harmony between the 7 classes was spot on, but it was hugely better, than the current situation.

Roles were precise alright. None other class could fill the role of other, at least nowhere nearly as well as now. I think that was a much worse situation back then.

Marlon wrote:

Instead of building on that solid foundation,from which it would´ve been easy to build even more solid and strong building, they tore the foundation to pieces by introducing 2 more classes.
In fact they didn´t even tear it a down properly. They just tried to put round pegs in square holes. Tried the easy and fast way out. Just get them 2 new classes out there and fast. And what has happened ever since is, that they had no other choice than to start tearing it down again. And try to put the bricks in right order.

The Harmony between the classes hasn´t existed since the 2 new classes. During SoA time it was much more better. It hasn´t been about us champs only. It has affected every single class more or less.

Dunno what to say to this... rant. Except that I disagree. Sure the new classes have been somewhat unbalanced, especially the rune-keeper. Their spike damage is too high, but that's being attended to. But that's how it is with new content. Remember the days when they released books to SoA and with those they rebalanced the existing classes (month of the champion, anyone)? I do. And I think the majority of the changes have been for the better.

While I am telling what I think about this matter, I must confess to having a secondary motivation. To ruffle some feathers. Lively conversation is nice and in place, eh Marley-my-son?

Wink

_________________
Playing Lotro is like making love to a beautiful woman; you enter with the state of mind that patience and determination are the virtues here, but after some ferocious efforts you realize that the time spent has been in vain.

**Marlon** · Subject: Re: Useful Links Fri May 22, 2009 7:24 pm

Mick wrote:

From what I've whitnessed, guards can still tank better. And if our fine fellowship allows the champ to tank and do his job well, there's nothing wrong with that. The fact that they are trying to bring the classes closer together, as we have discussed, is a good thing in my opinion.

Quote:

Having not played a champ, I fail to understand why a tanking champion should ever use Fervour anyways. Not being able to block, parry or evade puts extra pressure on the healers. Always.

Yes, there is absolutely no question about the fact that Guardian can tank better than a champion. And champions main role isn´t and never should be tanking.

Wrote the things in bit of hurry (and in furious anger Wink

) in the middle of the day in the office, so they might seem a bit unlogical at times.

But what I meant to say, with the Forges example, was that a proper tank wasn´t needed at all. At the run in question, the champion (which happened to be me Smile

) was able to do both massive damage and take the major part of the damage. Very much thanks to the build of our fellowship there. And the time limit was not a concern at all.

Try to do it again with the new nerfs. With the build we had last time, I´d reckon we would have some difficulties to get it done within the time limit.

And that doesn´t really support the thing where things were heading in MoM: no class is a must.
I quite like the theme with the HM´s. There really are some instances where certain classes are more important than some others. Or to be more specific, they play more bigger role than others. And some classes play very little, if any, role at all.

But like I said, i´m glad they are trying to bring Guardians back to life, with this. (as i feel that is one of the main reasons for this nerf)
I mean, how many guardians have you seen online lately? Been keeping an eye over the matter, I am telling you not many.

But the way of making some other classes life better on expense of someone others is not for my taste.
That feels like your sister´s been complaining that she doesn´t have a proper running shoes. But instead of giving those new shoes to her, your parents take away your bicycle.

Quote:

Well.. they balanced the solo play. Soloing with a minstrel or even a captain was total bollocks sometimes in SoA. Now it's a little better. But the numbers you have mentioned, 4-5 mobs of your own level at the same time.. with a minstrel no chance, captain has a little chance against 4 depending what kinda mobs they are. I understand nerf feels like crap, it's very human.

Yes, that change was somewhat welcome I´d say. I criticised that at first too, but i have admitted soon after, that it was quite in order. Maybe i´ll end up doing so after this one too Very Happy

It just feels so unjust, that all the nerfing is always targeted on few same classes.

Quote:

The idea that one class can simultanously do massive AoE damage to multiple mobs with great survivability is... absurd. Now you have to pick your spots. As a Main Assist. Other point is tanking. Like I mentioned earlier, fervouring champs tend to put extra pressure on the healers. Fellowship play, or better yet good fellowship play, is often about control. DPS! DPS! DPS! -thinking rarely brings home the bacon (not saying you ever were that kind of player). Granted, doing hardmode with time constraints or doing places with fast respawn rate tweeks this a bit.

All this is not to say that I wouldn't understand the "greater dps benefits the group" -point. I do. It can end fights quickly.

AOE is a tool that has to be used very carefully and with good judgement, what ever the case. I wouldn´t say, that the misuse of it would be the most common reason for wipes, but it´s somewhere there in TOP 1 Wink

But now, they are lowering it´s benefits significantly. And like I mentioned earlier. AOE is about the only champions major speciality.

Quote:

Roles were precise alright. None other class could fill the role of other, at least nowhere nearly as well as now. I think that was a much worse situation back then.

To put this more accurately, I didn´t mean it was necessarily better. Just clearer. Now the constant tweaking is happening mainly because it seems that even turbine isn´t aware of what each twink will do the fellowship harmony. And then they end up fixing it again, and again ,and again.

Quote:

Dunno what to say to this... rant. Except that I disagree. Sure the new classes have been somewhat unbalanced, especially the rune-keeper. Their spike damage is too high, but that's being attended to. But that's how it is with new content. Remember the days when they released books to SoA and with those they rebalanced the existing classes (month of the champion, anyone)? I do. And I think the majority of the changes have been for the better.

Oh I remember those month of *insert class here*.
Even then it was the case of us champs just getting few tweeks/nerfs on our existing skills and looking enviously from the back as other classes got brand new skills and toys Very Happy

Cries about the matter can be found in some deep places of this forum too Very Happy

Quote:

While I am telling what I think about this matter, I must confess to having a secondary motivation. To ruffle some feathers. Lively conversation is nice and in place, eh Marley-my-son?

I know that, I didn´t expect anything else Wink

Just that i´m getting a bit worried about the development of the game in general.
(LI system is somewhat limping imho, 1st age weapons dropping from here there and everywhere, crafting system has been pretty much fucked up, the game in general has been made easier for casual players, easier xp, the mentioned mess with continuing tweekings, growing amount of bugs and crashes, continously letting the player "feedback" affect for their plans on the game. The one who cries for the most, get´s her/his way)

This ongoing nerfing destinated on few same classes again, is just tip of the iceberg

I´ll just have to wait and see, how the change from this patch will affect us champions. So don´t get suprised, if you see me steaming upto the very limit of my endurance and skills (and the rest of the fellowships too Wink

), to find it out Smile

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