Mickster's 2 cents concerning the Captain

Ok I will start the discussion with a small introduction.

Mick Thistlefield, a captain of Bree-land, an armourer extraordinaire, at your service.

I reached level 50 some time ago and since concentrated my efforts to crafting, books, traits and captains quests. Haven't seriously tried the monster play yet, as I thought that I should hone the character first and see what there is in PvE for high level char. Of course with the book 10 update there is alot more to try out, mainly the reputation system with the new instances.

Here are some of my thoughts bout the captain char:

Attributes. Trying to optimize the char I have concentrated on might and fate, but with a fairly balanced outcome. I know some capts go for agility rather than might, but I thought that it's better to aspire for constant big damage than the occasional crit. The newest patch hit hard especially on the power consumption, which I thought was bad as it was. The devs thought otherwise. You can't really overlook any attribute as a captain even in PvE, with the new morale costs in our healing and all.

Gear. No big issues here, as an armourer I can craft pretty good gear for myself, and lots of great quest rewards. The new bracelets and earrings that jewellers can craft are really nice, check those out. I have in-combat power regeneration on both bracelets to ensure fair functionality even in longer fights.

Weapon. It's not hard to figure out to go with a 2-hander as a captain. The only situation I would even consider going with a shield is when I'm trying to be the main healer. And I stress the word try, as captain can be MH only with pretty poor results. At least that's the case for everything but the easiest quests. Right now i carry 7 (seven) weapons with me, as I'm trying to test the different damage types against different mobs. Lots of choises here, but if you can get power reg (Steadfast, Great Axe of the Mark, Flametongue) on the weapon, great. Eventually one might aspire for the Mirrored Ancient Steel weapons, all the 2-handers look pretty interesting. Shame that all of them lack the power reg.

Virtues. The most difficult to choose. I have Idealism, Valour, Justice, Determination and Discipline. These are really a matter of taste.

Race traits. Won't say anything, nothing to discuss really.

Class traits. Have equipped Defiance, Captain's Victory, Renewed Voice, Turn of the Tide and Expert Attacks. Captain's Victory is the only -must have- trait here, cause if a fellowship runs low on power, there's not much anyone can do. Defiance is also nice for the In Harms Way - Last Stand - Strenght of Morale -combo, which can really save a fellowship from a wipe-out.

Legendary traits. Out of the 3 acquired with books and pages, the only really useful in PvE is the Defy Corruption. Oathbreaker's Shame and Shield of the Dunedain have their own uses (in raids especially, I can imagine), but I really await the awesome In Defense of Middle-Earth, that you get completing the level 45 captain quests. Only 1 item to go for me, the Putrid Slime of Helchgam.

Tactics. The herald is a tactical weapon that too few capts out there really use. With the new shield-brother skill and insta-cast WoC he (or she) can tank pretty well for you. This is hugely beneficial against multiple mobs. Send the herald to take the heat from 2 mobs while you take the third out, healing the herald at the same time. Routing Cry, take the second out.. Rallying Cry and take the third mob out. Voila. I usually use the herald (or the standard) of War when soloing.

The new standards come in handy when the herald goes down in a fight. And also when you go solo against one elite (typically a turtle for me). Critted standard of War (+20% melee damage, +10% morale) is in order in that case.

In a fellowship captain is the middle-man, the Jack of all trades. That means you do kinda everything.. mark mobs, add some DPS, support-heal and buff. You can even off-tank since you're not that squishy, but captain has very poor means of aggro management. You might wanna watch the minstrel closely, healing and taking aggro off him if needed. The only sensible choise of herald here is the herald of victury, for the long fights. If the fight is short, it's usually easy and it doesn't matter what herald you use.


Don't know what else to say here. Please post your views and questions. Ask, challenge and provoke.

I look forward to a lively dialog about captains, leaders of men.

I'll continue with a note on captain's role in a fellowship..

The new Shield-Brother (a captain can assign one person to be his shield-brother), Inspire (heal to shield-brother), insta-cast Words of Courage (our normal single-target heal) and To Arms (buff to the melee damage of our shield-brother) are really well fitted for the captain. I am in favor of the main assist being a melee class instead of the hunter, because it keeps the group tight. If a hunter is the main assist, he's usually a bit off the group and as main assist can cause mobs running around and the melee DPS classes behind then.

A captain can be main assist, but with marking the targets and other DPS classes flinging about, it might be hard to keep the aggro. The main tank should keep as many mobs at his grasp as he can, but usually the concentrated DPS pulls the one mob away from him. A burglar can also be the main assist, but with crowd control responsibilities and the DPS being at the same level as the captains, it might be difficult for him too.

In an ideal situation the main assist is the champion. I mentioned the new skills, and with those I can heal and buff the champion pretty damn well. So while minstrel takes care of the guardian, the captain should focus his attention to the main assist.

Captain is a very interesting and helpful class.

Always welcome in any fellowship with their great buffs.
Sometimes, even during hard missions, you don't need a minstrel when you have a good captain on your side.

Thopor wrote:

Captain is a very interesting and helpful class.

Always welcome in any fellowship with their great buffs.
Sometimes, even during hard missions, you don't need a minstrel when you have a good captain on your side.

True, there really is no class in this game that is a "must" in a fellowship.
Not even a minstrel or a guardian.
Though they tend to make some things a bit easier.
I have to admit that the most daftest and propably the funniest fellowsip I´ve been so far included just 4 of us champions. There really was no need for any other class..it was a pure mayhem and havoc. I kinda felt quite sorry for those poor trolls that happened to cross out path.

But it really has to be said..a fellowship with 1 of each class , with capable players knowing their skills is the most enjoyable one there can be for me.

Marlon wrote:

True, there really is no class in this game that is a "must" in a fellowship.

Hold on your tongue champion! Or your face will have a meeting with my shield!


On the other hand. One time I was in a fellowship: guardian(me) one champion and four hunters. I only had to keep an agrro with a little help of offtanking champion and... It was orcs-rapid-masacre... Well it's not easy to keep mobs out of four hunters at once, believe me

Continuing on the damage type effect.. I recently grinded some of the deeds in Sarnur and there are some mobs with Great Protection. The description says that certain weapons can break that protection. I noticed that Ancient Dwarf-make is best against those mobs, and later on found some info on the yankee forums, that is what works and against what:

Some obsessive Yank wrote:

Sarnur great protection mobs: Ancient Dwarf followed by light/fire as a moderately close second.

Barrows instance protection mobs: Westernesse followed by light/fire as a moderately close second.

Undead things: Light, followed by fire as a very close second

Ettenmoors PvMP: Beleriand > Fire = Light > Westernsse = Ancient Dwarf > Common

Beleriand is an edge vs spiders, but it's equal to fire and light against all other creep types.

In a nutshell, fire and light are the most versatile damage types in the game, but you can specialize for beleriand in pvmp and the ancient dwarf or westernesse for the two great protection dungeon areas.

It doesn't make THAT much of a difference what the damage type is outside of these new dungeons (and Ettenmoors apparently), but useful info nontheless.

Captain quests done! Finally!! Third time IS the charm.
IN DEFENSE OF MIDDLE-EARTH - acquired.

POW POW!

Mick wrote:

Captain quests done! Finally!! Third time IS the charm.
IN DEFENSE OF MIDDLE-EARTH - acquired.

POW POW!

Congratulations!
I hope it'll be profitable for all Renegades too

Some clarifications:

Captain trait Expert Attacks, while good in solo play, will be replaced by Now For Wrath for fellowship play in my books. More tools to keep the group's power up.

Also, when attacking 3 normal mobs at once, restrain yourself from healing the herald until the first mob is nearly dead.

Next on the wish list:



I'm pretty happy with the gear I currently use, but one can still get better.

Hill-Defender drops from Azgoth in Carn Dum, so I'll keep my fingers crossed the next time. The in-combat power reg is a must for me, and the other mods are just gravy. Best damage available plus demoralize, might and parry bonus.

Berghelm is just the best damn helm in the game for melee guys. I have seen only one person with this helm on our server. I'm sure there are others but the point is that it's pretty rare, and I have no idea where it drops.

Have to say that Turbine really nailed the book 10 update changes for the captain. I can heal and buff one person pretty damn well. As a main healer captain still sucks (as he should) but in a fellowship captain should turn his attention to the MA. Before the patch captain couldn't heal and fight at the same time, now it goes really fluently.

Same applies to a 2-person grind. Captain can't heal himself that well, but coupled with someone else (that can preferably keep the aggro) they can make a pretty effective duo. Me and Marley-my-son have teared down packs of orcs in Nan Gurth this week, and the occasional level 51 elite drake barely slows us down.

Mick wrote:

Captain can't heal himself that well, but coupled with someone else (that can preferably keep the aggro) they can make a pretty effective duo.

Yep, gotta agree on this one. Being guardian, I enjoy the company of a (knowledged) captain alot, since his limited healing abilities are more than enough for me usually, and I don't have to watch him close if one of the mobs escapes my aggro. That's the benefit of a not-so-squishy healer as partner. Of course, his other extras add nicely to the team aswell, e.g. some extra health.

Now we only need a captain in my level range ! (or me getting to our captains range, hehe)

Mick wrote:

Next on the wish list:

I'm pretty happy with the gear I currently use, but one can still get better.

Berghelm is just the best damn helm in the game for melee guys. I have seen only one person with this helm on our server. I'm sure there are others but the point is that it's pretty rare, and I have no idea where it drops.

I read some Lotro-forums and found out that apparently Berghelm drops from Mordirith. So good luck with that one mate

Lamaerahd wrote:

I read some Lotro-forums and found out that apparently Berghelm drops from Mordirith. So good luck with that one mate

Naah, at this point my best bet would be the Rift set, that trumps the Berghelm.

Alright. You happen to have any link or pictures of that set?

MMODB has those listed. As well as sets for other classes.

http://lotro.mmodb.com/sets/armour-of-the-north-star-65.php

Those sets are amazingly good... I must get to the Rift some day

Mick wrote:

I look forward to a lively dialog about captains, leaders of men.

Now Jerelien is nearly 50th I though it'd be a good time to share a few thoughts of my own regarding captains.

Overall the captain has been a fun class to play. Not ideal for a beginner with benefit of hindsight but there is a lot of flexibility within the class that means you have a toolbox of skills to cover most situations. The class does not excel in any one area though, other than buffing, which is most useful in a fellowship, meaning it can seem a bit middle of the road sometimes.

Going down Mick's list of points:

Attributes. You can't afford to ignore any stat as a captain but there is still an order of importance. As a general pointer at 49th my stats range from roughly 250-350, reflecting this generalist approach.

Might: the Captain is a melee class so Might drives melee damage, CD mitigation, Parry & Block (not that you will often use a shield)
Vitality: this was a tight call for 2nd spot but the captain's trademark is survivability and the ability to stay on their feet in fs situations when others are going down. With this in mind Vitality doesn't just drive morale it drives Wound, Poison and Disease resistance plus Fire, Frost and Shadow mitigation.
Agility: this divides people a bit but with middling melee skills the one chance you have for a big hit is to keep your melee crit %age high and equip Expert attacks for the 5% bonus on DB/PA. If you do crit on one of these it will also open your defeat response skills (nice!). It also drives Evade and Parry skills.
Fate: this improves regeneration, contributing to survivability but also improves the chance and magnitude of tactical crits on your heals and cries.
Will: Some captain skills are quite power hungry but for long combats I'd rather equip power regen items. Not sure if power consumption is still a big issue.

Gear. At 49th I am lucky enough to have a complete set of Mirrored Knight's armour and can really recommend it . I have Brilliant MM Silver earrings and bracelets, engraved beryl rings (can't afford etched beryl gear yet) and have a couple of good necklaces that I bought on the AH to round things out.

Weapon. As Mick said a good 2H weapon is essential. Halberds have the advantage of a slow speed improving power consumption, although a 2H sword is tempting to make use of the 2% race bonus. At present my MAS Halberd has pride of place, although I also have my eye on the Halberd of War class reward, which will be great for fs-ing and maybe a MAS 2H sword. I have Steadfast (3 ICPR) for when I reach 50th and would also like to build up a selection of damage types for different occasions. I like to have a good shield and 1H weapons for those times I get jumped by 3 or 4 mobs. The block plus extra armour make me very had to kill and I always have ICPR on both for increased durability. My current 1H is a Precise AS Axe but I aspire to an Ornate Black Ash Spear.

Virtues. By co-incidence I also have Idealism, Valour, Justice, Determination and Discipline for soloing but substitute Tolerance for Valour when fs-ing.

Race traits. Curently equipped Strength of Morale (big heal), Balance of Man, Strength of Will, Mannish Virtue, Dutybound. Last 2 can be varied eg for +2% race sword bonus or Return to Bree, according to the situation.

Class traits. I equip the following solo:

Renewed Voice: makes that Battle Shout come around more often
Defiance: Extra duration on Last Stand plus heal at the end make this a must have.
Captain of Hope: Traiting a Herald is essential in whatever build you go for but I like the up front morale and the +1 Hope buff for soloing.
Expert Attacks: +5% bonus to DB/PA crit and chance of defeat event opening is great
Now for Wrath: ability to heal power is great solo or in fs

In fs:

Drop Renewed Voice as my damage output is less critical plus I am usually healing and buffing more anyway for Fear No Darkness, which makes the Captain's WoC much more effective. I am often the main healer in fs.
Change Captain of Hope for Captain of Victory. Power & power regen buff really keep the fs wheels turning in long combats.

Legendary traits. I have currently equipped Oathbreaker's Curse and Shield of the Dunedain as these are useful both in fs-ing and solo. In our current system both are useful in keeping the tank alive and I don't see the use in the corruption one as I'd rather keep people alive in the first place

I'm drooling over IDOME and still have 3 items to go. Will prob drop Shield of the Dunedain for this when I get it.

Tactics. I am a big fan of the herald for the tactical flexibility it allows with off-tanking (max of one mob) and think it is much maligned. The small heal, taunt and damage buffs are nice too. The taunt is needed as the herald's aggro generation is negligible and any form of healing has to be used with care or you will pull the mob off it. Keep meaning to try the Loyalty trait but never get around to it

The average damage output but excellent survivability (second only to guardian) means you can take on either multiple mobs or single tough elites with confidence when soloing. For the latter I prefer the Hope standard with +20% morale, +10% damage on top of the regular Hope buff giving me ~4.5k morale. The point being that the options around 1H/Shield, Herald and banner provide options for every occasion.

Fellowshipping is more complex and it has taken me a long time to fully understand a captain's role. Despite the heavy armour and good survivability skills a captain can never be a tank due to it's poor aggro management capability. Instead it is a kind of support class, buffing fellows to improve offence or defence, marking opponents, using herald/banner to keep the fs pumped up, supporting the tank/main assist with shield brother buffs, adding DPS, healing etc.

In short it is being whatever the fellowship needs you to be and a good captain can make a fellowship out of the most unlikely ingredients. It is also has the ability to influence the direction of a combat using it's buffs and has the ability to pull things back from the edge of disaster using IHW/LS/SoM or the two in-combat resurrection skills.

Jerelien wrote:

Weapon. As Mick said a good 2H weapon is essential. Halberds have the advantage of a slow speed improving power consumption, although a 2H sword is tempting to make use of the 2% race bonus. At present my MAS Halberd has pride of place, although I also have my eye on the Halberd of War class reward, which will be great for fs-ing and maybe a MAS 2H sword. I have Steadfast (3 ICPR) for when I reach 50th and would also like to build up a selection of damage types for different occasions. I like to have a good shield and 1H weapons for those times I get jumped by 3 or 4 mobs. The block plus extra armour make me very had to kill and I always have ICPR on both for increased durability. My current 1H is a Precise AS Axe but I aspire to an Ornate Black Ash Spear.

I have changed my mind about weapons a billion times. If you plan to off-tank, a MAS halberd is a clear choise with the threat increase and burst damage. Normal questing doesn't require you to carry different damage type weapons, beleriand and light are the best general choises. I also think that ICPR is very important, but equally important is that you don't waste your power. You don't have to do a melee blow every time you can. Captain actually does fairly decent damage by just auto-attacking, and skipping a melee strike here and there is a smart choice if it seems you run low on power. After all your most important duties are healing and buffing, and you don't want to limit yourself in those areas.

I just acquired the reward for book 13, Sword of Keria, but the speed is just too fast. The ICPR 3 equals to 180 power regen per minute. That's what, 2 melee skills? I say slower is better in this aspect. These days I wield a MAS Headman's axe. I like that power instead of morale. And armour rend is also a nice buff, as I'm most times hitting the MA's target and thus buffing several people's damage.

Jerelien wrote:

Class traits. I equip the following solo:

Renewed Voice: makes that Battle Shout come around more often
Defiance: Extra duration on Last Stand plus heal at the end make this a must have.
Captain of Hope: Traiting a Herald is essential in whatever build you go for but I like the up front morale and the +1 Hope buff for soloing.
Expert Attacks: +5% bonus to DB/PA crit and chance of defeat event opening is great
Now for Wrath: ability to heal power is great solo or in fs

In fs:

Drop Renewed Voice as my damage output is less critical plus I am usually healing and buffing more anyway for Fear No Darkness, which makes the Captain's WoC much more effective. I am often the main healer in fs. Change Captain of Hope for Captain of Victory. Power & power regen buff really keep the fs wheels turning in long combats.

I usually run soloing with Renewed Voice, Captain of Victory, Now for Wrath, Fear no Darkness and Defiance. This is pretty much a group oriented build, but I can handle most situations with this build too.

So the same set up for grouping, maybe switch RV for Captain of War if going for serious instanced business. Also coordiante banners if other captains come along. I don't wanna switch it up every time. I'm just too lazy.

Jerelien wrote:

Legendary traits.
I have currently equipped Oathbreaker's Curse and Shield of the Dunedain as these are useful both in fs-ing and solo. In our current system both are useful in keeping the tank alive and I don't see the use in the corruption one as I'd rather keep people alive in the first place

I believe you nowadays run with IDOME and OS, which is the same set up I use. For the longest time I ran with IDOME and Defy Corruption, but that's useful only when things go bad. And not even then could make a difference in most cases. OS 5min cooldown is really cool. I haven't played much with SotD, maybe I should try that out too.

Jerelien wrote:

Tactics

I would just like to point out to any captains out there that are using Hope or Victory banners to place them in the ground before you get in combat mode. If you plant it only when in battle, you'll see a huge gap appear in your vitals. That can be avoided if you plant the banner to the ground before aggroing mobs. Wait 2 seconds for the regen to fill you up, then run to the mob (or pull, even simpler) and plant it again when everyone are still in range of the first one. This in my pet peeve.

Wow, I'm quoting myself! Crazy.

Mick wrote:

I just acquired the reward for book 13, Sword of Keria, but the speed is just too fast. The ICPR 3 equals to 180 power regen per minute. That's what, 2 melee skills? I say slower is better in this aspect. These days I wield a MAS Headman's axe. I like that power instead of morale. And armour rend is also a nice buff, as I'm most times hitting the MA's target and thus buffing several people's damage.

You could also argue that ICPR 3 is 900 power in a 5 min battle. Considersing the speeds:
60 / 2.6 = 23 attacks per minute
60 / 3.2 = 18.75 attacks per minute

That is more than 2 attacks. But rarely will you just swing away for a whole minute in one spot. And there is a 2% sword damage race bonus. Hmph... getting difficult. And I'm not that confident on my math either at this hour.

Help me out here.

Mick wrote:

Considersing the speeds:
60 / 2.6 = 23 attacks per minute
60 / 3.2 = 18.75 attacks per minute

That is more than 2 attacks. But rarely will you just swing away for a whole minute in one spot. And there is a 2% sword damage race bonus. Hmph... getting difficult. And I'm not that confident on my math either at this hour.

Help me out here.

I use MAS Greatsword at the moment 60/2.8 = ~21.5 attacks/min

I have mixed feelings on this one. 180 power/min will cover 3 attacks assuming they're Def Strike at least. From a power efficiency perspective then you're better off with the halberd. Also if you crit on DB the halberds huge (125) max damage means you get better damage (x3 max damage on DB).

For me the downsides of the halberd are that the slow speed makes it harder to react to things. Sounds crazy but in fs I like that extra 0.4s reaction time with my MAS Greatsword, esp on things like Kick. Sword of Keria would give 0.6. The threat on the Halberd is at best useless in fs and at worst you get aggo when you don't need it. Sword has the to hit bonus and the 2% damage bonus, both of which are useful.

I hadn't considered the armour rend of the axe - how often do you get this ie is it reliable? I only like things that come up at least once/combat otherwise what's the point. The 2H axe also offers most of the benefits of the Halberd ie better power efficiency and better crits.

On which one to pick it depends which you value most. 2H sword gives me nicer morale and more reliable damage plus decent reaction time so I'll prob stick with that, assuming I'm not under power stress (also I like swords). If power is a big factor, prob the 2H axe. I'd go with SoK if Beleriand damage was going to be a big help but not otherwise - max damage is relatively low.

wow... in LOTRO terms... you guys are nerds...

it's like a techies conventions in here..

Mind you, it is as well that somebody pays attention to the right way to do thing. J has alomst taught more about being an LM as playing did.

you fly, bro'

C

Jerelien wrote:

For me the downsides of the halberd are that the slow speed makes it harder to react to things. Sounds crazy but in fs I like that extra 0.4s reaction time with my MAS Greatsword, esp on things like Kick. sword of Keria would give 0.6. The threat on the Halberd is at best useless in fs and at worst you get aggo when you don't need it. Sword has the to hit bonus and the 2% damage bonus, both of which are useful.

I definitely know what you mean. Especially when fighting mobs who can slow you down even more, like worms or goblin-town goblins, I can usually go wash the dishes and cook a macaroni casserole between the first and second attack.

Jerelien wrote:

I hadn't considered the armour rend of the axe - how often do you get this ie is it reliable? I only like things that come up at least once/combat otherwise what's the point. The 2H axe also offers most of the benefits of the Halberd ie better power efficiency and better crits.

Well needless to say, it's totally random. When soloing normal mobs it doesn't pop on every mob, but I still see it quite often.

Jerelien wrote:

On which one to pick it depends which you value most. 2H sword gives me nicer morale and more reliable damage plus decent reaction time so I'll prob stick with that, assuming I'm not under power stress (also I like swords). If power is a big factor, prob the 2H axe. I'd go with SoK if Beleriand damage was going to be a big help but not otherwise - max damage is relatively low.

I think power is the most important thing for me in a long fight, and on that aspect the axe suits me nicely. But I'm definitely gonna try that SoK out, just to get a feel to it.

Clavain wrote:

you fly, bro'

Normally just after I've been punted by a damn troll

Thanks mate

Clavain wrote:

wow... in LOTRO terms... you guys are nerds... it's like a techies conventions in here..

yeah.

Everyone familiar with Conan O´Brien and the way he imitates a nerd knows the image that comes to my mind when reading this conversation

Two of those nerds exchanging thoughts with a high voice, shaking their other index finger to bolster their message and fixing the position of their classes with the other.