Guardians and Minstrels

Well, I and some others tried again to take Ivar down yesterday. To cut a long story short, we failed. Again. We tried couple of times as the days before and we always failed because first the minstrel died and then me.
However, no one seemed to care about protecting the minstrel. It always seemed to be that people expected me to tank Ivar.. which was hard enough and go around and fetch all mobs that attack the mninstrel... including ranged ones.
I mean, that is impossible. Ivar is a power sucker and i can keep him to me but i have no power left to run around and taunt others that attack the minstrel.

I tried to explain that to the group, that i might be able to fetch one or two of the minstrel but never ever the ranged ones... they either didn't understand or thought that i was wrong and that i had to take care of the minstrel.

So my question.. who's right? Or any suggestions to me how to react next time I try to kick Ivar's bony butt?

There is no right or wrong and these are only opinions... but they were wrong. It can't be the tank's job to protect the minstrel. At the start of the fight the guardian should try to get the attention of as many mobs as possible and then focus on the boss. No-one else should even be hitting the boss but the tank. Others should take care of the adds, especially those attacking the minstrel. I cannot stress enough how important it is that they focus on one mob at a time, that the MA chooses (there are exceptions to this rule, multiple ranged attackers for example). And when adds are gone, and only then, start beating the boss.

On the reacting question... some people are open to advice and some are not. When it comes to the latter I have no answer how to react.

Right what Mick said here and others in other threads.

While it is your decision to work with such people or not, it of course often is hard to know before you start.

Sorry to hear about your bad luck with fellowships, it seems I was alot luckier recently and the overall player quality improved from my view during the last levels. After a successful group, I use to keep a few names in my friend list for later reference.

For me, it often helped to discuss the general tasks distribution within the team right before heading to battle. Usually within such discussion it quickly shows if there's several morons in the fellowship (I'd say up to one is acceptable in a 6-man group) - a good time to either get these kick or leave the group on your own.

Maybe it sounds hard to find another group, but if a group is doomed already, you'll need a new one afterwards anyways. I prefer to save on repair costs and time here. Of course, there's always a chance to /tell to a few mature people and form another group afterwards without the morons.

The only way I see to make sure you have a proper group, is to check your friends and kinship list for people of about your level nearby. Even safer is to do a kinnie-only group, for which our kin will not have enough people in the same level range (though a few 50s are always useful).

Sorry, to hear that you didn´t succeed yesterday either.
I really haven´t that much to add on Mick´s answer, but may i tell you a proper story, how it went with Ivar when i was trying to kill him:

Thei few first tries were very similiar to yours i believe..and the succes was similiar aswell.

But the try that real blew the bank was nothing short of great. This is how it went. (long time ago, so might not remember everything precisely)

Ivar has those two bannerholders, which heal him or give him power or something. You can kill the left one from the doorway without aggroing anyone else by ranged attack or sneak to him close to the walls.
You really don´t have to bother youself with the other one.

Next phase, attack Ivar..he´ll soon calls 2(?) adds, 1 ranged, 1 melee. Tank keeps focusing on Ivar. If the fellowship has other Guardian with them it´s a huge benefit, as he can tank the ranged mob.
(When we were there our 2nd tank kept the ranged one to himself for the time of entire battle.) The rest will focus on the melee mobs that Ivar summons and keeps them out of Healers back. And beat the living daylight out of them. When the melee is gone, everyone(ex. 2nd tank) can focus on Ivar again untill he calls another melee mob.

IF the fellwship has only one Guardian, it should go like this I think:
When Ivar calls those 2 adds, champion(or anyone) should try to lure ranged mob into melee fight near the rest of the group so that he isn´t firing the healer. The main thing is that everyone else focuses on the same add at a time. After adds are gone, then back to Ivar till he summons new adds. If the ranged doesn´t come to melee, he should get killed first nevertheless..perhaps champ should tank the melee (if guardian can´t hold both Ivar and the melee), while the rest kill the ranged one.

It really isn´t the (main) Tanks task to keep healer safe from the ranged mob running around the place, as he should focus totally on Ivar. With the lead of Main assist the rest shoud be focusing on keeping the healers arse unspoilled.

Tigrim wrote:

After a successful group, I use to keep a few names in my friend list for later reference.

Especially useful when the fellowship quest chains and fellowship questing in general really start, this being from Esteldin in my experience.

Tigrim wrote:

For me, it often helped to discuss the general tasks distribution within the team right before heading to battle.

Concerning specific boss fights certainly true and helpful. When it comes to normal fights, everyone should know their role. That of course isn't the case every time, even if everyone is level 50. Though it is more likely. I remember the first horrendous experiences in Dol Dinen, when nobody in the group knew what to do.

Tigrim wrote:

Usually within such discussion it quickly shows if there's several morons in the fellowship (I'd say up to one is acceptable in a 6-man group) - a good time to either get these kick or leave the group on your own.

I'd say one is barely tolerable. And I don't mean that everyone should know everything. I certainly don't. But it's the attitude. If someone totally dismisses the tactics the group is going for, it really pisses me off. Sometimes it's just that they don't speak english that well, but that's usually still manageable. Bad attitudes aren't.

Tigrim wrote:

The only way I see to make sure you have a proper group, is to check your friends and kinship list for people of about your level nearby. Even safer is to do a kinnie-only group, for which our kin will not have enough people in the same level range (though a few 50s are always useful).

I am so happy that our kinship finally has almost full group to the last instances. We just lack a tank! Tigrim, no pressure.

Mick wrote:

We just lack a tank! Tigrim, no pressure.

Eh.. nah, no pressure please ! Being a dwarf I already feel condensed enough...

But hey, isn't Thopor the first guardian in the list to ask for some progress ? He seems to progress even slower than me, did 2 levels while I did 10...
*innocently looks at his kin leader*

Um.. wait, I actually was fast levelling recently since I somehow had more time that I expected (didn't seem to have to learn for my last exam), but this possibly will change soon, so I probably will fall back to my personal slow-levelling speed again in the near future. Ah well, gotta use the time while I have it !
*runs to log on, now that the server finally works again*

Who do you think I'm actually pressuring? What was that about speaking the silence..?



-edit- Noticed that this is forum post number 666. Hmmh...

Mick wrote:

-edit- Noticed that this is forum post number 666. Hmmh...

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name,
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game...